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 Free will or not?

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dearlg1
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PostSubject: Free will or not?   Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:44 am

When a decision is made, what became of the path not taken? Could it be that there was no other path and free will is but an illusion?
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:18 pm

teachers like these today
have their ahimsa fading away
from the ancient times
of nomadic tribes
\!!
wishing well \!!
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Romana
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:48 pm

dearlg1 wrote:
When a decision is made, what became of the path not taken? Could it be that there was no other path and free will is but an illusion?
In quantum mechanics, a system exists in a probabilistic superposition of states, only collapsing into one definite state when subject to observation or measurement. Perhaps something similar happens here. Before the decision is made, the outcome is a superposition of all possible outcomes, each with an associated probability based upon the properties of the question or need, the person(s) involved, and other circumstances. The making of the decision forces the actual outcome to one single choice. The paths not taken remain as theoretical possibilities that may yet be realized at a future date, or perhaps they just vanish, taking on a probability of zero.
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:56 pm

Romana wrote:
dearlg1 wrote:
When a decision is made, what became of the path not taken? Could it be that there was no other path and free will is but an illusion?
In quantum mechanics, a system exists in a probabilistic superposition of states, only collapsing into one definite state when subject to observation or measurement. Perhaps something similar happens here. Before the decision is made, the outcome is a superposition of all possible outcomes, each with an associated probability based upon the properties of the question or need, the person(s) involved, and other circumstances. The making of the decision forces the actual outcome to one single choice. The paths not taken remain as theoretical possibilities that may yet be realized at a future date, or perhaps they just vanish, taking on a probability of zero.

said with the ultimate cold precision of a scientific mind.
no further comment.
humanities?
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Romana
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:01 pm

lavender orchid wrote:
said with the ultimate cold precision of a scientific mind.
no further comment.
humanities?
Cold and precise? I find it beautiful and mysterious. The idea that the act of measurement itself could so profoundly affect the outcome was quite a revolution in scientific thought. Detached observation, tempered by the finger of humanity.
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:19 pm

Romana wrote:
lavender orchid wrote:
said with the ultimate cold precision of a scientific mind.
no further comment.
humanities?
Cold and precise? I find it beautiful and mysterious. The idea that the act of measurement itself could so profoundly affect the outcome was quite a revolution in scientific thought. Detached observation, tempered by the finger of humanity.

yeah, you are looking at this. i am part of the experience while being told ...

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dearlg1
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:41 am

Yet how can a mere act of obsersvation force an idea into a known state reality? Or is it that our human mind can only perceive a very limited amount of the actual reality that is present and we do live in a Quantum Matrix of limitless limitations. That would explain the bottomless pit of degradations that have seemed to have bemoaned humanities so-called evolution. Then again, with no free will of our own, this is exactly what humanity is meant to be...nothing but what we are. Twisted Evil
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Romana
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:51 pm

dearlg1 wrote:
Yet how can a mere act of obsersvation force an idea into a known state reality? Or is it that our human mind can only perceive a very limited amount of the actual reality that is present and we do live in a Quantum Matrix of limitless limitations. That would explain the bottomless pit of degradations that have seemed to have bemoaned humanities so-called evolution. Then again, with no free will of our own, this is exactly what humanity is meant to be...nothing but what we are. Twisted Evil
Possibilities are there, whether we perceive them or not. The theoretical possibilities in a given situation may, indeed, be limitless, but the probabilities associated with very many of them may be infinitesimal, leaving a manageable set for actual consideration.
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:04 am

Going back and dupilcating a past event is in theory an impossibility, accoring to the laws of non-linear dynamics which prohibits exact duplicaion of events from occuring. So an exact senerio can not be repeated to even allow another choice to be made.
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:24 am

this is true.
what is also true is the impossibility of the mind curbing the opposing willpower to act against better knowledge. slowly, until death cuts the connections that would otherwise concur with infinite possiblities.
kudos.
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Romana
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:52 pm

dearlg1 wrote:
Going back and dupilcating a past event is in theory an impossibility, accoring to the laws of non-linear dynamics which prohibits exact duplicaion of events from occuring. So an exact senerio can not be repeated to even allow another choice to be made.
Going back to do anything is a theoretical (and practical) impossibility, but duplicating a past event in the future is possible. Sometimes there are perturbations that render the duplication far from perfect, in which case it is more of a variation than a duplication. Other times, however, any parameters and circumstances which have changed since the first occurrence do not enter into the event or decision. This is as good a duplicate as a page run through a photocopy machine. The two copies are obviously separate pieces of paper, printed at different times, but nonetheless (barring machine error) a faithful reproduction. Part of it is how one handles the time variable.
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:09 am

Duplicating is an entirely different act from the original, which has its own path to consider. And again, even the duplication can never be duplicated. That becomes an original, unrepeatable act in it own self. And so and so on.
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:03 pm

"freeing" will from all "selves" or vice versa?

then any coincidence should be an awesome surprise. in an entirely new world.

a gift from unknown benefactors to those who have their needs totally "disciplined".

what is there to "will" anyway?

yes, this is radical thought.
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:30 pm

In terms of a loop in which a person supposedly repeats a series of events...in theory an ether imprint of every moment of every particle-to-atom including thought...pervades conscious thought as the trigger for discrepancy disallowing a true repeat. Without conscious recognition of the second, third time around everything is locked in the loop in its original form...Time does not itself effect change, matter effects change. The weight of a thought caught gravities interest, with a twinkle and a wink she laid the trap. The past is the past so we think.

Mmmmm,
Birds
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:45 pm

dearlg1 wrote:
Yet how can a mere act of obsersvation force an idea into a known state reality? Or is it that our human mind can only perceive a very limited amount of the actual reality that is present and we do live in a Quantum Matrix of limitless limitations. That would explain the bottomless pit of degradations that have seemed to have bemoaned humanities so-called evolution. Then again, with no free will of our own, this is exactly what humanity is meant to be...nothing but what we are. Twisted Evil

Hi Dearlg1, perhaps a thought should be measured in terms of the weight of simply just the possibility and not in heavy, visibly noticable physical terms.

It is a rivers free will to travel downhill, nothings stops it but everything determines its path.

Lots of hugs eh?
Birds
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:51 pm

[quote="lavender orchid"]
Romana wrote:
dearlg1 wrote:
When a decision is made, what became of the path not taken? Could it be that there was no other path and free will is but an illusion?
In quantum mechanics, a system exists in a probabilistic superposition of states, only collapsing into one definite state when subject to observation or measurement. Perhaps something similar happens here. Before the decision is made, the outcome is a superposition of all possible outcomes, each with an associated probability based upon the properties of the question or need, the person(s) involved, and other circumstances. The making of the decision forces the actual outcome to one single choice. The paths not taken remain as theoretical possibilities that may yet be realized at a future date, or perhaps they just vanish, taking on a probability of zero.

Said in a most respectable prose of language which boasts a complexity to be marveled. farao
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:19 am

http://www.customgraniteworks.com/Sunset%20Red_blank2.html?image=granitetypes/sunsetred.jpg&height=78&width=104
a picture, it feels like making something between tension and density "visual".
this is different from visualizing, however.
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:00 am

Dearest Lavender Orchid,

Of the many forms of expres​sion( language ) on this forum, yours to me is the most wonderful and complex. As if you are an old soul you have chosen to not allow words to restrict your mental and soulful wanderings.
To me, a visual experience happens both before and totally free of thought. The visual inspires the reaction of thought.
Through learning your picture story from early till now I can see your lovely winding path through every emotion felt to man and the many external visions that inspire your thoughts of the moment.
Thank-you for the opportunity to learn such a language as yours.

Lots of warmth and growing understanding... flower
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PostSubject: Re: Free will or not?   Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:52 pm

PrettyBirds,
in a state of boundless alienation and 'apartheid', reading your words is the comforting correspondence that all sentient beings NEED or else life means no more than a more or less triumphant non-being.

soul2soul. on shortwave.
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