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 Conventional and Ultimate Wisdom

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PostSubject: Conventional and Ultimate Wisdom   Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:46 am

This will be mostly from Buddhist philosophical standpoints but in truth it is either as true and real from any standpoint or it is not.

'I am not, I will not be.
I have not, I will not have.
This frightens all children,
And kills fear in the wise.'
Nagarjuna


CONVENTIONAL AND ULTIMATE WISDOM
Although Albert Einstein was certainly not a Buddhist, these statements sound much like it:

"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the 'universe', a part limited in time and space.
He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separate from the rest
- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.
This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affectation for a few people near us.
Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion
to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

From Living Buddha, Living Christ by Thich Nhat Hanh:

"Enlightenment for a wave in the ocean is the moment the wave realises that it is water."
Wisdom in Buddhism can refer to two types of insight: conventional wisdom and ultimate wisdom:

Conventional wisdom relates to understanding the conventional world, or the world as we know it. Traditionally it refers to understanding the way in which karma functions; to understand which actions bring us happiness and which bring us suffering. Conventional wisdom covers all understanding of the world as it functions, including science, with the exception of ultimate wisdom.

Ultimate wisdom (jñana in Sanskrit) refers to a direct realisation which is non-dualistic, and contradicts the way in which we ordinarily perceive the world. The experience of ultimate truth or emptiness is beyond duality.

It is important to remember that emptiness here does not refer to nothingness or some kind of nihilistic view. Emptiness refers to the fact that ultimately, our day-to-day experience of reality is wrong, and is 'empty' of many qualities that we normally assign to it.

Describing this non-dual experience in words is not really possible, as language is based on duality and contrasts. Trying to explain this experience - which contradicts our normal perception - is a bit like explaining colours to someone who is born blind; difficult to say the least.

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PostSubject: Re: Conventional and Ultimate Wisdom   Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:33 am

One in All, All in One- If only this is realized, no more worrying about you not being perfect. ~Buddha
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PostSubject: Re: Conventional and Ultimate Wisdom   Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:00 pm

Admin wrote:
One in All, All in One- If only this is realized, no more worrying about you not being perfect. ~Buddha

your love is the strength holding me together at breakpoint.
wisdom is challenged in ways baring bearings i may not have but have been.

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PostSubject: Re: Conventional and Ultimate Wisdom   Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:15 pm

lavender orchid wrote:
Admin wrote:
One in All, All in One- If only this is realized, no more worrying about you not being perfect. ~Buddha

your love is the strength holding me together at breakpoint.
wisdom is challenged in ways baring bearings i may not have but have been.


From an old song "Your love for me has got to be real, for you to know just how I feel"

Anyways or others, my love for you won't wither.
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PostSubject: Re: Conventional and Ultimate Wisdom   Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:06 pm

Such loves are unconqureable.
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PostSubject: Re: Conventional and Ultimate Wisdom   Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:26 pm

Nataskin wrote:
Such loves are unconqureable.

na also, geht doch!

hi, Nataskin, very pleased to meet you.


Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven


OM..
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PostSubject: Re: Conventional and Ultimate Wisdom   Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:38 pm

lavender orchid wrote:
Nataskin wrote:
Such loves are unconqureable.

na also, geht doch!

hi, Nataskin, very pleased to meet you.


Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven

I used to dream and be worried about getting lost, but now I sort of see that wherever I go, there I am. What place can now, not be my home

Pleased as well, lovely orchid flower. Pleased as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Conventional and Ultimate Wisdom   Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:50 am

Admin wrote:

It is important to remember that emptiness here does not refer to nothingness or some kind of nihilistic view. Emptiness refers to the fact that ultimately, our day-to-day experience of reality is wrong, and is 'empty' of many qualities that we normally assign to it.

Describing this non-dual experience in words is not really possible, as language is based on duality and contrasts. Trying to explain this experience - which contradicts our normal perception - is a bit like explaining colours to someone who is born blind; difficult to say the least.

Smile Thanks.
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PostSubject: conventional   Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:03 am

DaDA, you were missed. I am glad to see you back.
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PostSubject: Re: Conventional and Ultimate Wisdom   Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:38 am

DaDA wrote:
Admin wrote:

It is important to remember that emptiness here does not refer to nothingness or some kind of nihilistic view. Emptiness refers to the fact that ultimately, our day-to-day experience of reality is wrong, and is 'empty' of many qualities that we normally assign to it.

Describing this non-dual experience in words is not really possible, as language is based on duality and contrasts. Trying to explain this experience - which contradicts our normal perception - is a bit like explaining colours to someone who is born blind; difficult to say the least.

Smile Thanks.

Smile

On the conventional wisdom level, I am also glad to see you back! bounce
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PostSubject: Flight of the Garuda   Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:13 pm

Flight of the Garuda (Song 6 by Shabkar Tsokdrug Rangdrol)

E-ma-ho!

Listen again, fortunate heart-children!
That which is widely renowned as mind, does anyone have it? No one has it!

What is it the source of? It is the source of samsara and nirvana and their myriad joys and sorrows.

What is it believed to be? There are many beliefs according to the various vehicles.

What is it called? It is named in countless different ways.


All ordinary people call it I.
Some non-Buddhists call it Self.
Shravakas call it "individual egolessness."
The Mind Only School label it Mind.
Some call it Prajnaparamita, [that is,] "transcendent knowledge."

Some label it Sugatagarbha, [that is,] Buddha-nature.
Some name it Mahamudra.
Some give it the name Madhyamika.
Some say "the single sphere."
Some name it Dharmadhatu, [that is,] realm of phenomena.
Some call it the name alaya, "ground of all."
Some call it "ordinary mind."

Despite the innumerable names that are tagged onto it,
Know that the real meaning is as follows:


Let your mind spontaneously relax and rest.
When left to itself, ordinary mind is fresh and naked.
If observed, it is a vivid clarity without anything to see,
A direct awareness, sharp and awake.
Possessing no existence, it is empty and pure,
A clear openness of non-dual luminosity and emptiness.

It is not permanent, since it does not exist at all.
It is not nothingness, since it is vividly clear and awake.
It is not oneness, since many things are cognised and known.
It is not plurality, since the many things known are inseparable in one taste.
It is not somewhere else; it is your own awareness itself.
The face of this Primordial Protector, dwelling in your heart,
Can be directly perceived in this very instant.
Never be separated from it, children of my heart!

If you want to find something greater than this in another place,
It’s like going off searching for footprints although the elephant is right there.
You may scan the entire three-thousand-fold universe,
But it is impossible that you will find more than the mere name of Buddha.
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