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 Buddhism 101

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism 101   Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:12 pm

\!! ahh yes, rub that in...
i have been there
but it seems long ago
and strangely far away

it's the different cultures
either in utter want
or cool turning away
(their people, transitive, sic)
from parts inherently
theirs before
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PostSubject: Buddhism   Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:19 pm

Hello lavender, I believe in balance. I do not know if this answers your question, but there has to be a mixture
of Love and Reason. A balance that is needed in order to transform. Divine wisdom produced from the
mixture of Love (mercy, compassion, kindness) and Reason (logic, knowledge, wisdom, rational). The balance
is needed to see truth more closely, with less distortion. With this wisdom one is able to discern the truth more
closely and be less self fooled.
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism 101   Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:32 pm

dear lightsun:

did you have a good nap? Smile

i, too, know what "has to be" and what causes distortions.
did anything like faith get extra mentioning in the buddhist teachings, or was the trust and bonding to be taken for granted?

and balancing the mixture of compassion and reason even long distance (in time and space) may only increase the individual suffering.
i tend not to elaborate on such in a public discourse.

no problem with abundance reassembling in emptiness.
but that in reverse, i do have a problem with.
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PostSubject: Buddhism   Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:53 pm

I don't take any creed as the ultimate wisdom. This is why I take the best of any teaching &
discard the rest. These are partial truths. Each person must make their own individual way.
Honestly I do not know how one can climb the mountain without the wisdom of the joint twins
love and reason. I know this if I have a negative emotion I am being fooled by self deception.
It is a warning that there is an internal disturbance of distorted logic. It is a tool that has helped
me on my path. I mean what is the path lavender? Tell me, I will listen. There is no one path.
This knowledge is just bits of the puzzle. We are each unique, therefore we have individual paths
that will work for one but not for another.
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism 101   Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:01 pm

lightsun wrote:
I don't take any creed as the ultimate wisdom. This is why I take the best of any teaching &
discard the rest. These are partial truths. Each person must make their own individual way.
Honestly I do not know how one can climb the mountain without the wisdom of the joint twins
love and reason. I know this if I have a negative emotion I am being fooled by self deception.
It is a warning that there is an internal disturbance of distorted logic. It is a tool that has helped
me on my path. I mean what is the path lavender? Tell me, I will listen. There is no one path.
This knowledge is just bits of the puzzle. We are each unique, therefore we have individual paths
that will work for one but not for another.

there is no discarding of any rest.
there is understanding of pathways criss-crossing at best.
a "negative" emotion is as useful as any other signpost, just not as pleasant as it could and should be.
no man is an island.
you talk about climbing a mountain...
i may counter with someone getting beaten and insured and a crowd gathering and just watching, and no one helping but waiting for the police.
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PostSubject: Buddhism   Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:05 pm

How can balancing compassion and reason increase suffering lavender? Fear and emotional
pain caused by (1) real life trauma and (2) distorted perceptions of the trauma or pain with
false labels and false self identifying. The highest thing we have is our spirit. Nothing else
can touch it. All else is transitory illusion. For us to identify with our body, or possessions,
fame, or ego is false and self defeating. Balancing compassion and reason fights the demons
within us and our false logic and reasoning. It transcends pain. Without love and reason one
is caught in a net of lies and pain.
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism 101   Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:14 pm

lightsun wrote:
How can balancing compassion and reason increase suffering lavender? Fear and emotional
pain caused by (1) real life trauma and (2) distorted perceptions of the trauma or pain with
false labels and false self identifying. The highest thing we have is our spirit. Nothing else
can touch it. All else is transitory illusion. For us to identify with our body, or possessions,
fame, or ego is false and self defeating. Balancing compassion and reason fights the demons
within us and our false logic and reasoning. It transcends pain. Without love and reason one
is caught in a net of lies and pain.

i follow your logic; that is not reason, imho.
there is no false self identifying, only a permanent "struggle" with discerning priorities to which on must give attention, and the "demand" tends to get on autopilot while the individual is powerless in growing isolation.

and here, it does seem, you resort to dogmatism in order to mask a dilemma causing you depression.
it's really with a hot heart i feel that rather than with a cold reasoning rejecting and dismissing it, labeled as a fault in yourself.

and could you, kindly, elaborate on what transcendence means to you? something absolute? or also individually possible, according to necessity in an environment not in your power to choose?


Last edited by lavender orchid on Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Buddhism   Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:19 pm

Thank you I had a couple of hours of sleep. Which is sufficient. You are correct
entirely that a negative emotion is a tool and a useful signpost. In fact without
it how could we be alert to internal disturbances? Areas of the psyche that needs
healing by reprogramming and redirecting false distorted signals. Moreover with
our own pain we can be more compassionate to the sufferings of others and develop
both empathy and interconnectedness.
As for the crowd scene it just goes to show they are not yet ready to attain the
next level. A Master would not stand by but take action.
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism 101   Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:23 pm

lavender orchid wrote:
there is no discarding of any rest.
there is understanding of pathways criss-crossing at best.
a "negative" emotion is as useful as any other signpost, just not as pleasant as it could and should be.
Agreed. Lightsun and I have had this discussion before.

lavender orchid wrote:
it's really with a hot heart i feel that rather than with a cold reasoning rejecting and dismissing it, labeled as a fault in yourself.
I may feel with "hot heart", as you say, but I then act on it with cold reason. This maximizes effectiveness as well as consistency with my values.
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism 101   Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:24 pm

lightsun wrote:
Thank you I had a couple of hours of sleep. Which is sufficient. You are correct
entirely that a negative emotion is a tool and a useful signpost. In fact without
it how could we be alert to internal disturbances? Areas of the psyche that needs
healing by reprogramming and redirecting false distorted signals. Moreover with
our own pain we can be more compassionate to the sufferings of others and develop
both empathy and interconnectedness.
As for the crowd scene it just goes to show they are not yet ready to attain the
next level. A Master would not stand by but take action.


well such action demands wisdom and restraint more often than the more obvious direct intervention or even prevention REALLY needed, given the consequences a master does have in mind, as well.
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PostSubject: Buddhism   Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:27 pm

How would you correct my dogmatism? I'm serious. How would you reword it? I must follow
a system. A foundation. Otherwise what else is there? Where does one begin? How does one
get on a path with no signposts, no markers? Where does one begin?
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism 101   Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:29 pm

Romana wrote:
lavender orchid wrote:
there is no discarding of any rest.
there is understanding of pathways criss-crossing at best.
a "negative" emotion is as useful as any other signpost, just not as pleasant as it could and should be.
Agreed. Lightsun and I have had this discussion before.

lavender orchid wrote:
it's really with a hot heart i feel that rather than with a cold reasoning rejecting and dismissing it, labeled as a fault in yourself.
I may feel with "hot heart", as you say, but I then act on it with cold reason. This maximizes effectiveness as well as consistency with my values.

yes Romana, and i can perceive a certitude you may derive from practicing in good time.
as long as you can be be free about your time, that's great. remember, time is money, and the bureaucrats here have had eons of time to think about how to occupy yours.
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism 101   Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:37 pm

lightsun wrote:
How would you correct my dogmatism? I'm serious. How would you reword it? I must follow
a system. A foundation. Otherwise what else is there? Where does one begin? How does one
get on a path with no signposts, no markers? Where does one begin?

if i did really know the whole person, a correction would seem less important, which it is to me anyway - on any one to one "basis".

a foundation, like common grounds? that has to be found first. Smile

i must follow a system? no, once a system is no longer created with one's direct participation, it must be modified and sort of be taken as an inner resource, a gift from life coming with any new birth and conception.
and i see it as an obligation to understand growing intricacies rather than dodging them.

discipline follows an initiation. everything else does \!! "create" the understanding of necessities and provision. a bodhisattva knows the quality of connections others only talk about, imho.


Last edited by lavender orchid on Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism 101   Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:38 pm

lavender orchid wrote:
yes Romana, and i can perceive a certitude you may derive from practicing in good time. as long as you can be be free about your time, that's great. remember, time is money, and the bureaucrats here have had eons of time to think about how to occupy yours.
I am not sure I understand your references to time here. To me, effectiveness has a measure of efficiency as well, namely maximum outcome for resources (time, money, effort) expended. And time is money only if someone else is willing to pay me to do something else with the time.

Lightsun: you start with yourself. Been there, done that, as they say. Signs will appear. You just have to be open to them when they do.
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PostSubject: Buddhism   Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:38 pm

Hello Romana. I must confess. Usually when I answer posts I first mediate & calm
my mind. This is to get in maximum contact with logic. Also to get in touch with
my intuitive knowledge. This is also to lessen distortions which can seep through
in a mind that is not calm. Even still distortions in logic may occur. This is where
I count on others to reign me in. If what they say makes sense I will be open &
receptive. I am not in a totally calm state of mind. I am waiting for a doctor
appointment and have not yet stilled my mind. So I shot from the hip. Later I
will be calm and reflect upon this dialogue.
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism 101   Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:57 pm

Romana wrote:
lavender orchid wrote:
yes Romana, and i can perceive a certitude you may derive from practicing in good time. as long as you can be be free about your time, that's great. remember, time is money, and the bureaucrats here have had eons of time to think about how to occupy yours.
I am not sure I understand your references to time here. To me, effectiveness has a measure of efficiency as well, namely maximum outcome for resources (time, money, effort) expended. And time is money only if someone else is willing to pay me to do something else with the time.

Lightsun: you start with yourself. Been there, done that, as they say. Signs will appear. You just have to be open to them when they do.

Romana, there is a frequency to every thought. makes it slow or fast. in discussions, i noticed very early in my life, i am capable to hold a lot of different scenarios i am aware of, but need to bring into "unreal" linearities due to compliance with language(s) and/or writing. i cannot talk stereo, but think orchestral.
that's the time factor, and it distorts reason and calls it logic. (imho)
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PostSubject: Buddhism   Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:53 pm

Whoever lived contemplating pleasant things, with senses unrestrained, in food immoderate,
indolent, inactive, him verily Mara overthrows, as the wind blows down a week tree.
Whoever lives contemplating the impurities of the body, with senses restrained, in food moderate,
full of faith, full of sustained energy, him Mara overthrows not, as the wind cannot shake a rocky
mountain.
Buddhism. Dhammapada 7-8
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PostSubject: Buddhism   Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:05 pm

Why should I be unable
To regard the bodies of others as "I"?
It is not difficult to see
That my body is also that of others.
In the same way as the hands and so forth
Are regarded as limbs of the body,
Likewise why are embodied creatures
Not regarded as limbs of life?
Only through acquaintance has the thought of "I" arisen
Towards this impersonal body ;
So in a similar way, why should it not arise
Towards other living beings?
When I work in this way for the sake of others,
I should not let conceit or (the feeling that I am) wonderful arise.
It is just like feeding myself-
I hope for nothing in return.
Buddhism. Shantideva, Guide to the Bodhisattva's Way of Life 8.112-16
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PostSubject: Buddhism   Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:11 pm

An ignorant man committing evil deeds does not realize the consequences. The
imprudent man is consumed by his own deeds, like one burnt by fire.
Buddhism. Dhammapada 136
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PostSubject: Buddhism   Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:18 pm

As sweet as honey is an evil deed, so thinks the fool so long as it ripen not ; but when it ripens,
then comes the grief.
Verily, an evil deed committed does not immediately bear fruit, just as milk does not curdle at
once ; but like a smoldering fire covered with ashes, it remains with the fool until the moment it
ignites and burns him.
Buddhism. Dhammapada 69,71
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism 101   Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:21 pm

lightsun wrote:
Whoever lived contemplating pleasant things, with senses unrestrained, in food immoderate,
indolent, inactive, him verily Mara overthrows, as the wind blows down a week tree.
Whoever lives contemplating the impurities of the body, with senses restrained, in food moderate,
full of faith, full of sustained energy, him Mara overthrows not, as the wind cannot shake a rocky
mountain.
Buddhism. Dhammapada 7-8

\!!
lightsun: all day it seems i have been waiting for these words, not as a lesson to learn theoretically, but as a confirmation to that which the day has been already.
good to see you now. sunny

hear the wind?
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PostSubject: Buddhism   Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:17 pm

Hello lavender orchid, it is good to see you. sunny Yes it is balance. That is part of the equation.
It is interesting how my perspectives have changed and continue to change. I believe now that it is
balance between spirit and body. There are certain religions, many if in fact not all that say this
world is just an illusion. A stepping stone. I do not know the truth. I will continue to learn. sunny flower
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PostSubject: Buddhism   Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:29 pm

Not in the sky, nor in mid-ocean, nor in a mountain cave, is found that place on earth where abiding
one may escape from the consequences of one's evil deed.
Buddhism. Dhammapada 127



One can not escape one's mind. This is why it is sometimes foolish to seek freedom elsewhere.
One can not escape one's conscience. It haunts us. We carry it with us for the rest of our lives.
It is a heavy burden indeed unless one is tied to the truth or the universe and goes with the flow.
Does not act against reality and therefore self. This is the lesson, to understand deeply. We are
all interconnected. To act with violence toward another is to act against yourself. We are all part
of the whole. .


Last edited by lightsun on Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Buddhism   Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:35 pm

According to what deeds are done
Do their resulting consequences s come to be ;
Yet the doer has no existence :
This is the Buddha's teaching.
Like a clear mirror,
According to what comes before it,
Reflecting forms, each different,
So is the nature of actions.
Buddhism. Garland Sutra 10
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PostSubject: Buddhism   Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:29 pm

At any one moment, Nirvana has neither the phenomenon of becoming, nor that of cessation, nor even
the ceasing of operation of becoming and cessation.

It is the manifestation of perfect rest and cessation
of changes, but at the time of manifestation there is not even a concept of manifestation ; so it is called
the Everlasting Joy which has neither enjoyer nor non-enjoyer.
Buddhism. Sutra of Hui Neng 7
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