The marriage of quantum physics and meta physics...

Romana wrote,
I am not sure I understand this question. If the hydrophobic pocket usually houses a single electron, space is probably too limited for a molecule of any size to enter. It is unlikely that any photons are released by the electron, since the amount of energy involved is probably too small. The energy exchanged is more likely chemical, not light.


It is supposition that the anesthetic molecule actually goes into the pocket and effects the electron...how much of this has been proven...

I was just thinking about Fireflys....to light up, they pull the phosphorus tail off an ATP molecule. There is usually or always 3 tails to pull. I wonder how many they pull off. Since there is only 3 and they can light up so vividly, I have a silly mental , probably not accurate image of an electron in a hydrophobic pocket pulling off even 2 tails and blowing itself right out of the pocket....the things you think about in the middle of the night. Oh shit, I just lost a brain cell.....

Here is another physics link you might like:

http://physics.info/

Thank-you, I didn't grind to a halt with this, just in a bit hibernation while I try to understand enough about the next topic I want to bring up. This and Lavender's websites are very helpful. you both, such wonderful women! I am a lucky woman!

http://books.google.com/books?id=DbahEn-y6AoC&pg=PA35&lpg=PA35&dq=electron+transport+chains+in+microthttp://www.chakraenergy.com/energy.htmlubules&source=bl&ots=D_hAKxyBVi&sig=BVlIkg8_eTAeNXRcS1OLu2b30Xk&hl=en&ei=Hfh9S833KYOVtgeT9_yTDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CAgQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=&f=false



This is a big link, just a little more about quantum consciousness....

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:gPhlzMn8pl8J:people.ucsc.edu/~mlwilson/publications/Sensorimotor_WM_PBR.pdf+sensorimotor+memory+remembered+later&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk


This is the article I've been mulling over...

Here is a supporting article, I'm still looking for the link to expand this...
"Storage in semantic memory is easier on the ego because experiences are tempered through their translation. Also, because semantic memory integrates input into existing mental schemata, the information is subject to learning effects (10). When recalled, these memories are subject to distortion because of their emergence in a new context. It has been found that with time sensorimotor and iconic memories tend to become restored as words and symbols which can be processed in connection with existing mental schemes (10). LeDoux, on the other hand, has postulated that "once formed, the subcortical traces of the conditioned fear response are indelible, and that 'emotional memory may be forever'" (10). LeDoux's theory does not bode well for the ability of trauma victims to unload their burdensome memories. There is definitive evidence, at least, that memories may be recovered."

This paragraph has always interested me. So, we have a part of our brain that communicates in a language both very complex and affluent, done without words or symbols.
" Emotional memory may be forever" I can agree with this, even if a person is able in the end to translate the language into a related symbol/word, the original message would remain unchanged, connected to the current evolved understanding but still evident.
I have to wonder if perhaps, this is where we both process and store information about such things as our past lives that is sometimes converted from sensorimotor or iconic memory to semmantic. I wonder if this area of the brain is able to communicate outside the sense of self and relate to chemical "imprints" of past experience that exist " in theory" everywhere around us. Perhaps it could be genetic memory, one might think a long lasting, fairly stable memory would go further towards establishing an enviroment for personal evolution of any kind including genetic. Perhaps our "memories" of past lives come from our genes. Perhaps, if you could find the oldest gene in the string, you would have read backwards, the evolution of the string. From one gene to many, at this stage in the game our genetic evolution is carried on through giving birth, however, in that child is not just the genes of end result but also the very first gene. Perhaps we have memory of that gene's experiences and growths from the begining till now....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theta_rhythm

VERY interesting article Lavender, thanks...we should find more about this.

An article that may be of interest:

Tales from the quantum frontier

Quoted from Romana's article....

"It makes me cringe when I hear people say how weird quantum mechanics is, when we understand it so well," he told me. "The first lesson is that you shouldn't suggest it's so weird. It is wonderfully predictable. You really can do the engineering right."

"And it's a mathematically beautiful field," Zeilinger added. "It's mind-boggling how beautiful it is. Unfortunately, you have to know mathematics to see that. But it's really beautiful."


Yes it is beautiful, even to me and I don't have much of a scientific understanding. What a wonderful read.

"We were just trying to demonstrate quantum effects in a big thing," Cleland said. "But a possible application would be if you try to detect these acoustic vibrations at the quantum level. You could do it with this. You could use it as a quantum microphone, or a quantum loudspeaker."

Wow, just?

"I'm dreaming of teaching small children, maybe 4-year-olds, about quantum phenomena," he told me this week. "You can't teach them the math, that's quite clear. But you can show them apparatuses or simulate this behavior in a quantum way, just to see what they make out of it. Maybe if you get exposed early, you have a better intuitive grasp."

I love the shift education is taking...I am amazed at all the statutes and bills Stem is involved in, very interesting...very impressive!

girls, your cheerleading for such early childhood education does make this skeptic cringe....
if you don't mind me being frank here.

at age 4, as i see it, kids should gradually discover their language and memory abilities rather than having quantum play toys and technology forced upon their minds and stuffed down their throats.

just my 2 cents. sounds a bit outmoded, i know.

lavender orchid wrote:

girls, your cheerleading for such early childhood education does make this skeptic cringe....
if you don't mind me being frank here.

at age 4, as i see it, kids should gradually discover their language and memory abilities rather than having quantum play toys and technology forced upon their minds and stuffed down their throats.

I personally am not an advocate of teaching quantum mechanics to preschoolers. My preference is to build upon the natural curiosity of children by giving them opportunities to explore the world around them using all their senses, and simple, intuitive tools (rulers, magnifying glasses, scales, etc.) In making observations, trying things out ("what will happen if I . . . ") and talking about what they see, they are laying a foundation for more sophisticated scientific exploration later in life. Many adults can follow cookbook experimental procedures, but lack this essential spirit of inquiry and open-mindedness to whatever happens.

Romana wrote:

lavender orchid wrote:

girls, your cheerleading for such early childhood education does make this skeptic cringe....
if you don't mind me being frank here.

at age 4, as i see it, kids should gradually discover their language and memory abilities rather than having quantum play toys and technology forced upon their minds and stuffed down their throats.

I personally am not an advocate of teaching quantum mechanics to preschoolers. My preference is to build upon the natural curiosity of children by giving them opportunities to explore the world around them using all their senses, and simple, intuitive tools (rulers, magnifying glasses, scales, etc.) In making observations, trying things out ("what will happen if I . . . ") and talking about what they see, they are laying a foundation for more sophisticated scientific exploration later in life. Many adults can follow cookbook experimental procedures, but lack this essential spirit of inquiry and open-mindedness to whatever happens.

oh sure, i agree with you there, Romana.
and i also noticed kids not being curious anymore, rather regurgitating all sorts of impressions with adults being much too busy to listen and answer questions.
the average time children are spoken to at home is something like 7 minutes per day, scientifically proven.

I don't know Lavender and Romana, whats wrong with adding new tools and experiences?

Prettybirds wrote:

I don't know Lavender and Romana, whats wrong with adding new tools and experiences?

Pretty:

it may sound extremely provocative to american ears, but "old europe" has this humanist ideal still somewhere in the back of some minds that a child be given time to discover nature and self. it's hardly possible anymore with technologies accelerating and economics dictating that pace.

not that i have the answer. and not that i think hostility is the right answer. but a family life is different from just adding new tools and (streamlined) experiences.

Lavender, I had not realized we were talking about home life, I thought we were looking at schooling. 2 very different things...I, like you, view family life as lacking from and feel that kids are not experiencing enough on their own, or at home, or in the classroom. I think TV to be the biggest culprit, that and needing 2 people to carry the home financially.
I don't think however that new tools and concepts in the classroom, especially ones so important to life, are a bad thing to introduce. Curriculum is lagging way behind, I think we all agree that understanding the interconnectedness of everything in the world goes a long way towards both providing good and giving balance. Because of the many different versions of the same thing, this interconnectedness, like God in the classroom, there is no way to resolve the differences through the use of particular methodologies. The message has to come from as neutral a venue as possible. Quantum physics could be just that tool.
A greater understanding is what this world needs according to so many people, well if so, we must allow for concept growth and experiment. Most particularly with education of our children. I also think politics should be introduced in early grades. We seriously underestimate children all the time, imo.

Prettybirds wrote:

Lavender, I had not realized we were talking about home life, I thought we were looking at schooling. 2 very different things...I, like you, view family life as lacking from and feel that kids are not experiencing enough on their own, or at home, or in the classroom. I think TV to be the biggest culprit, that and needing 2 people to carry the home financially.

It is more than financial need that causes both parents to be away from home during the day. It is the desire of both to contribute to the outside world, to have meaningful and consequential adult interactions on a regular basis, to exercise their talents and pursue their interests. This need not come at the expense of the child, but raising a child need not come at the expense of the personal development and activity of the parent (usually the mother) outside the home. An ideal circumstance might be for each parent to work essentially a 2/3 time job, so both can contribute in both spheres.

Prettybirds wrote:

I don't think however that new tools and concepts in the classroom, especially ones so important to life, are a bad thing to introduce. Curriculum is lagging way behind, I think we all agree that understanding the interconnectedness of everything in the world goes a long way towards both providing good and giving balance. Because of the many different versions of the same thing, this interconnectedness, like God in the classroom, there is no way to resolve the differences through the use of particular methodologies. The message has to come from as neutral a venue as possible. Quantum physics could be just that tool.
A greater understanding is what this world needs according to so many people, well if so, we must allow for concept growth and experiment. Most particularly with education of our children. I also think politics should be introduced in early grades. We seriously underestimate children all the time, imo.

I think we sometimes embrace new things too quickly simply because they are new, without having given the "old" things a chance. When the old things appear not to have worked, it is often because they were not done correctly, adequately funded, fully developed, etc. Sometimes, they were simply the last "new thing" that probably should not have been tried. Educational fads come and go far too rapidly for anyone's good, especially the students. New techniques and equipment are worthwhile, but only if they actually help. If they are there for the sake of novelty, we are exploiting children for our own satisfaction.

Children need to (re)learn how to pay attention again. It is fine for education to be interesting, exciting, relevant to real life, etc. but it is not to be confused with entertainment, a disturbing trend. Innovations, especially in technology and equipment, are often used to "capture the attention of the students" when that should be done through the content itself, in combination with the sheer expectation that learning should be respected and pursued, even if it is challenging and (heaven forbid) takes effort.

The content of curriculum is not as backward as one might think. It is mostly dumbed down. We are teaching much of the right content, just not in the right way. The answer to rote regurgitation is not flashy gimmicks. It is taking the time to expect, encourage, and assist genuine understanding in students, the understanding that comes from self-motivated curiosity.

good morning, every one here!

i'm very much with you, Romana and Pretty.

i tend to think that most adults \!! are in a treadmill that does not even remotely allow them to remember all the unfulfilled childhood needs and desires that went unchecked and had to be compromised for ~~ what an irony ~~ a better future, a better world "for our children".

dare we name what's been so elaborately missed for the longest while?

the internet certainly connects us, and we should be able to live up to this (mixed) blessing and accept the big challenge.
the internet cannot, however, replace the vibrant community life we all so desperately need and appear to be losing even more with each passing day. (unless we have trained our inner perception as well as the outer senses ~~~ who has?)

thoughts throughout these past few days have taken me back to an old issue: trespass.

may we here, who are working diligently on ourselves, be able to convey our thoughts coming from a state of non-trespass, and, equally important, perceive the goodwill to fulfill this innate* sense i believe everyone is born with: social justice!



*http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7GX4-4DN97CT-Y&_user=10&_coverDate=10%2F31%2F1982&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1257304171&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=9415ee501e860751c0d0ae34b5349a59

Good morning from here ladies.

Home life. I talk to my grandmother a lot about the old days, when she was growing up, she doesn't remember her past the way her feminist counterparts remember theirs. To her and myself, this home front change has left massive holes in our history. For instance, there are quilts from every generation but my mother's and mine. There are pieces of furniture, books, clothing, paintings, stained glass works, collections of types of family memorabilia in every corner of our family home. Generation after generation of women, weaving and binding this family together...now there are none. Except me I suppose, I am young enough and interested to add my life to collection and help it to grow, to try and keep us bound by our family traditions, expectations and growth. Not easy, but good.
I realize that working for a paycheck can not only be vastly interesting but immensely personally satisfying. It shows in the fact that men where quite happy to keep themselves busy this way for centuries. I seriously enjoyed my job and was well paid for it. I can also see that for the majority of women who are working, it is miserable, low paid, constant conflict with home and identity.
Some of the underlying problems that created the feminist movement where unappreciated home life, money, and desire to improve the life of women, and mostly, a need to prove our validity as women.

Unappreciated home life....this is a tuffy. Why was it so unappreciated? Not the a typical answer that men are pigs, personally I think it is a combination of many things, 2 of which are politics and religion. I can honestly say, at this point in time although my thought may change, that in societies where the major religions are not used and the politics more pagan or tribal, woman is not subjugated to the extent or with the motivations that so flavor more modern cultures. Money and religion.

As the thought to put the underlying concept of physics in the lives of younger children. This is my question...how did tribal cultures teach their children who were considered adults by puberty? These children were immersed from the very beginning of their lives in the connectivity of everything on this planet. From both a spiritual and practical point of view. This way of teaching gave the world a whole lot of balanced, happy adults for a long time.
When I consider ways to start teaching this principle again to our youngsters, with the inclusion of scientific, spiritual and political fronts, I don't see a stark classroom full of white coated youngsters bent over Bunsen burners or sitting in suits discussing Obama.
I see wonderful outside excursions and magical, simple explanations of these large realities. The most basic of tools used in the form of exploration and story telling. Vastly different from what really goes on in classrooms at this moment. Well, I do see a growing trend of the connectedness flavor through a burgeoning charitable movement within schools. This is good, it brings awareness of many things, but alone it is not enough, doesn't give the whole picture. While the kids are becoming aware of the different struggles in the world, they do not seem to have a very good idea of what is causing them beyond the concept of gaining skills to work/ not being able to receive an education or of the real reasons why there is no food. The social and political understanding is missing and this worries me, big picture seems to show that we are doing a good job of teaching our children how to be mules like us. I welcome any attempt to cross this barrier...it has to start somewhere right?
For instance, the kids at my son's school in grade 11, did a massive food drive for third world countries. When I asked a bunch of them why they thought they had to find and ship this food, not one of them had even the slightest understanding of the politics of even one country in they were shipping too. They did not understand the fact that the political system that is raping and pillaging is people is what is a the root of the situation. No understanding of the role that religion/greed played in creating that political system...This is a big deficit of understanding in our children and it does not bode well for major sweeping change as our children, most of them, consider how they will work and how much money they will make as so important that it overshadows and prevents the time and appreciation needed to really make good changes in the world.

Pretty:

i can appreciate your thoughts! as well as the cultural context they convey even if non-explicit.

my ancestral "heritage" appears much more broken and lost in the historical contexts of 19th and 20th century developments that had people sucked into debating right and wrong along the lines of religion and politics (the latter with ever increasing "importance" to where it is now: the economy, stupid!! ).

underlying the legitimate quest for materially comfortable living conditions is a veiled 'live and let die' with the sparse moments of bliss accorded to ignorance by the minds unable to access/RETRIEVE a paradise lost!

out of respect, we need to HEAR what's been spoken for the records.
understand why records were set in writing and how this practice carried flaws with itself.

back to early "education": we communicate on different levels. the clearer this can be made before any formal processes of schooling and working, the better our social interactions.

Yes we do Lavender, so desperately so, need to hear. One challenge, is to figure out how, in this multi-cultural part of the world, to get those stories told in a universal language we can all understand. One such language that I know of is science. Physics is a spiritual science, perhaps the most of all of them, its origin is spiritual...In a relatively unbiased way, it is connecting that which has been divided for us for what feels like eternity. It is proving the inter-connectivity of the world at the same time as including every culture, color or type. As long as the grounds are established well in the beginning I do not think it a bad concept to introduce young.

Prettybirds wrote:

Yes we do Lavender, so desperately so, need to hear. One challenge, is to figure out how, in this multi-cultural part of the world, to get those stories told in a universal language we can all understand. One such language that I know of is science. Physics is a spiritual science, perhaps the most of all of them, its origin is spiritual...In a relatively unbiased way, it is connecting that which has been divided for us for what feels like eternity. It is proving the inter-connectivity of the world at the same time as including every culture, color or type. As long as the grounds are established well in the beginning I do not think it a bad concept to introduce young.

objection, your honor! i beg you to consider this:

tell me, are you speaking physics (or even physically) with this proposition or english?

where can i buy or rent a good professor of physics teaching me what i knew before he dropped the meta and replaced it, henceforth only speaking math jargon?

Hi Lavender, yes I agree with you but think this is where we need to step in and do some magic as far as the science of quantum physics is concerned in the classroom for children. Metaphorically speaking, I view the movement of science to be a masculine energy. We, as feminine energy would need to wrap ourselves around the concept and use it as a platform to build our current versions of the stories told by our elders in past generations. Use it weave our section of the blanket of life. Especially regarding language and the process of interpretation. Riddled in Indian Lore are stories that describe communication that is delivered in many forms that do not use words or even images sometimes. Our current version is quantum physics. The vibratory relationship of everything, the many languages expressed through the process of interaction and the new language that forms as a result of the partnering on levels only ever felt before, not ever truly seen.
It has the potential to equalize us by teaching us that culture and politics belong in the realm of individuation not separation. It is going to take some time though to ground those oh so very scientific words into the world of global reality.

Prettybirds wrote:

Hi Lavender, yes I agree with you but think this is where we need to step in and do some magic as far as the science of quantum physics is concerned in the classroom for children. Metaphorically speaking, I view the movement of science to be a masculine energy. We, as feminine energy would need to wrap ourselves around the concept and use it as a platform to build our current versions of the stories told by our elders in past generations. Use it weave our section of the blanket of life. Especially regarding language and the process of interpretation. Riddled in Indian Lore are stories that describe communication that is delivered in many forms that do not use words or even images sometimes. Our current version is quantum physics. The vibratory relationship of everything, the many languages expressed through the process of interaction and the new language that forms as a result of the partnering on levels only ever felt before, not ever truly seen.
It has the potential to equalize us by teaching us that culture and politics belong in the realm of individuation not separation. It is going to take some time though to ground those oh so very scientific words into the world of global reality.

i sure love this idea!

"my" global reality looks like this:
you enter any public transportation system today, and after being scanned and screened (controlled), you tune out all the other passengers, take out your mobile and start chatting... noise, no one has any regard for their immediate neigborhood, but is busy with some quite irreverent communication.

those who cannot afford the gadgets will not be found on any transportation system at all sooner or later.
and not on the road either. and not in any familial situation either.

that's not too far off. youngsters growing up this way give a damn about old lore coming from losers, as losers should be managed efficiently like any waste disposal problem.

that's being realistic, our carefully crafted conversations aside!



do you know how many elderly people (and we live in so-called ageing societies) told me, they would not like to be young these days?

do you know that right now all our social achievements concerning workers' rights are rolled back, and the young ones not finding a voice to protest? except worrying about their individual career chances perhaps?

anything goes: everyone spouts off half-baked, half-digested "knowledge" in competition, but has nothing left that relates to immediate experience and that being shared.

lavender orchid wrote:

Prettybirds wrote:

Hi Lavender, yes I agree with you but think this is where we need to step in and do some magic as far as the science of quantum physics is concerned in the classroom for children. Metaphorically speaking, I view the movement of science to be a masculine energy. We, as feminine energy would need to wrap ourselves around the concept and use it as a platform to build our current versions of the stories told by our elders in past generations. Use it weave our section of the blanket of life. Especially regarding language and the process of interpretation. Riddled in Indian Lore are stories that describe communication that is delivered in many forms that do not use words or even images sometimes. Our current version is quantum physics. The vibratory relationship of everything, the many languages expressed through the process of interaction and the new language that forms as a result of the partnering on levels only ever felt before, not ever truly seen.
It has the potential to equalize us by teaching us that culture and politics belong in the realm of individuation not separation. It is going to take some time though to ground those oh so very scientific words into the world of global reality.

i sure love this idea!

"my" global reality looks like this:
you enter any public transportation system today, and after being scanned and screened (controlled), you tune out all the other passengers, take out your mobile and start chatting... noise, no one has any regard for their immediate neigborhood, but is busy with some quite irreverent communication.

those who cannot afford the gadgets will not be found on any transportation system at all sooner or later.
and not on the road either. and not in any familial situation either.

that's not too far off. youngsters growing up this way give a damn about old lore coming from losers, as losers should be managed efficiently like any waste disposal problem.

that's being realistic, our carefully crafted conversations aside!



do you know how many elderly people (and we live in so-called ageing societies) told me, they would not like to be young these days?

do you know that right now all our social achievements concerning workers' rights are rolled back, and the young ones not finding a voice to protest? except worrying about their individual career chances perhaps?

anything goes: everyone spouts off half-baked, half-digested "knowledge" in competition, but has nothing left that relates to immediate experience and that being shared.

Hi, my global reality looks much the same as yours...everybody living in a personal box, with a few exceptions of course.
I'm not sure how far this ability to accomplish so much without looking up or going out the door is really going to effect us. Socially yes, the effect is huge and not a very easy one to tackle as it definitely plays on an ingrained desire to have it easy. But we also have to work, it is our nature and need to be busy, so no I don't think technology in the end will replace us. I can see it happening already in some areas but not over-all.
Consumerism is one of the things at the heart of it...how much do we really want.
And I agree that today's youngsters have no where near enough appreciation for the underlying principles of life. The old stories are no longer good enough. On a 2 part front, we have to refocus our children by doing more than having them help us to apply band-aids through donation, but also have them able to look past themselves and the gratification gained through donation, to look at the heart of the problem.
This and the teaching of the principles of democracy in the younger grades, which at current is a mentality not instinctive but learned according to some. I don't know...at least we are teaching them...

Yes, I see censorship too. You know what I think might be able to poke a big hole in its bubble....the future generation of teacher's and politicians sitting in every kindergarten class. Since we can't seem to make much of a difference on the grown up political/social front world wide, lets tackle the kids....surely we can teach them about what is actually going on, give them the skills to fix the problems both old and new, and thus build a better future. So much more of an education beyond work and career.

Curriculum is a most important factor to address IMO. This is where we could really make a difference.

Bring it down to earth baby...physics in the lower grades, how could we write a curriculum for younger children that taught them, without religious bias, about the importance of interconnectedness coupled with democratic principle in its ideal and not so ideal form, one that would predispose them to be more interested in real solutions, real equality and less want from a consumerist point of view.

From a foundation perhaps built of a combination of old and new stories backed up by basic quantum principles to help allow for validity we could write stories, create curriculum, that empowers within our children once more the non-separate way of life. At this stage though in this particular rewrite chapter of social conscience, the balance leaves a lot to be desired and it is disheartening for sure!